Fentanyl Synthesis

[The-Hive]

I’ve seen the cartels do this in a T-shirt with no respirator in a barrel with a stick….

 

[OrgUnikum]

Yes its a nice show they put up for the clowns from VICE and US TV in general. It is not real of course, the myth of F being produced by hundreds of small manufacturers stirring in sheds in some old pots with 50 kg of F in bags just sitting in at the wall, come on, reality check. The cartels would have to supply the precursors and to take off the product for trafficing and sale. Why should they outsource the production when they can just grab some people off the road and force them to do it for being allowed to stay alive? The methods are probably almost realistic, the scale is not, of course they run superlabs for this and the whole story with the many small producers is just deception after they got their meth superlabs raided too often.

So, whats happening? Mexico makes not much Crystal Meth anymore just some razemic meth cut with N-ISO. All the real d.Meth comes from China and bordering countries where the Triads have buildt up massive production capacities but they cannot sell much in China anymore and the other SE countries are cracking down hard too. So instead of selling precursors for Meth to Mexico they sell the product directly and everybody is happy. F though they cannot produce and sell from China to Mexico say the US, thats political and as the Triads and the Chinese Communist Party are tightly interwoven in some regions of South China they made a deal: Precursors for F superlabs and d.Meth directly. Cartels happy as the got rid of the tedious Methlabs and have only to run the much more compact F labs and the Chinese as they still make money and more having F produced cheap and sold to the US of course takes away the traditional source of black money from the CIA, they depend since ages on the Heroin trade for their black ops and that just dried out.
I though can congratulate the wise Chinese leaders for this genius plot to defund the CIA. At least somebody is really caring about the world it seems

 

[Doktor Faust]

According to the available information, in Mexico, meth is produced starting from benzyl cyanide (or benzyl chloride), via APAAN, BMK and formic acid/methylamine. The resulting racemic meth is then resolved, using, very likely, tartaric acid or a derivative thereof (e. g. dibenzoyl tartaric acid), producing the desired (+) meth (i. e. dextrometh). Finally, the free base is treated with HCl to get the final product, i.e. “ice”. The (-) meth is discarded, as it is inactive. The resulting ice still has a small amount of (-) meth (few per cents, as detected by chiral HPLC), but that does not affect the potency. Apparently, a profitable and efficient procedure, despite that one half (- meth or levometh) is discarded.
It seems that they do not use any chiral precursor (e.g. +ephedrine or +pseudoephedrine), unlike some other manufacturers.
So, most likely, Mexican ice is a genuine, “made in Mexico” product.

But, in producing fentanyl, it seems that Mexico is much less self-sufficient, supposedly depending on some imported precursors. (Still, it is cheap). Much more so in the case of 3-Me f. and carfent. (Actually, these are hardly produced there, although could be highly profitable).

They might be interested in purchasing industrial, know-how procedures, to get fully self-sufficient.

 

[FENTAMAS]

Maybe @OrganicGuy007 is still under impression of that one-pot method from Indian super-chemists where they mix all shit together, stir and pour directly onto the dealer's lactose.

 

[rss]

one-pot synthesis is ofc not a right path to take if you are a serious cook & indeed the above synthesis is outdated. there are some more method i know which is way simpler and shorter than the above one. i think @OrganicGuy007 got more experience in this field, i want to know more effective method which he knows & wants to share.

 

[OrganicGuy007]

This one-pot works fine if you know the flaw in the Jounrla paper. Thing is... you can't add that propionyl chloride to an acidic reaction mixture, if you do then you'll end up with ANPP as final product and nothing else (done & verified with FTIR, also verified in two different scientific reports made on the request by DEA). You must make that rm neutral pH before adding the propionyl chloride. It's very weird that it's not stated in that Gupta Journal paper, anyways this is fact since years back and that is the reason many people call the Gupta one-pot method a fake Journal. It's not fake, they only didn't add the most important information that they basify before the addition of PC

The last I have to say is that Buturylfentanyl is without a doubt the most euphoric fentanyl derivative of them all (I tried some 7 or 8 of them, and Buturylfentanyl have a superior buzz compared to the other ones), so swap that propionyl for buturyl chloride and you'll have Butrylfentanyl as final product (the latter also has a higher safety index besides from producing a nicer buzz)

Yes there are far better ways to do fentanyls

 

[rss]

@OrganicGuy007 so the thing is - one have to add NaOH till the ph is neutral then PC is added & the next steps are same, this will prevent the formation of ANPP. am i right?

thanks for telling about butyryl fentanyl . it is more euphoric but less potent than fent can u tell about the potency ratio between fent & butyryl fentanyl?

do you think the gupta method after correction is the very effective method? or there are more good method out there...?

 

[OrganicGuy007]

There are other methods used in the underworld, but I feel it's stupid giving them up for free, sorry buddy can't do that. Most DEA analytical reports you can't find online, they post only only certain CC-intranet servers and there is where the good stuff is. Online you see only Patents and old Journals, the new one's and the most interesting ones (regarding the development of manufacture in Mexico) I'd say is found 95% only at CC-intranet for Govenments and scientist people

Recently Mexicans went from piperidone's to 4-anilinopyridin + thionyl chloride as starting kit for major manufactur due to the heavy crack down by the U.S. Government on all piperidone manufacturers around the world. I think that is pointless since piperidone's are fairly easy to make for underground guys. If you google for the Sheng-Hsu Zee "A new process for the synthesis of fentanyl" you'll most likely still find that Sheng-Hsu Zee method online.

Buturylfentanyl is around 0.25 to 0.3 potency of fentanyl. In my opinion the safety index ED vs. LD is far more important than anything regarding fentanyls. Let's take Acetylfentanyl, the most dangerous one, where 2mg is a good dose and 4mg is deadly and to me that's completely crazy and not fit for the drug market. Buturylfentanyl you need in my opinion 3.5x to 4x higher dose to depress breathing to the degree it would cause death. Buturylfentanyl doesn't have that extreme "brain numbing" (or whatever you wanna call it) like other fent's, that's also why I hold it far more safe besides all other benefits with it.

3-methylfentanyl also has a higher safety index, but it's a hustle to methylate that 3-position and that's why very few guys make it (3-methylpiperidone is also expensive, $1500 to $2500 for 100gr from China). It also have double duration time and a superior buzz, so in my opinion 3-methylfentanyl is THE #1 fentanyl for the drug market

 

[Hank Schrader]

3 methylfentanyl through 3-methyl-4-piperodone under the usual conditions will not work, you will not be able to add phenethyl group under conditions similar to unsubstituted piperidone. 3-Methylfentanyl is now derived from 2-phenylethylamine, methyl acrylate, and methyl methacrylate.
There are also more interesting ways to produce 3-methylfentanyl, and remove the benzyl group with gas (phosgene)...
In my opinion, 3-methylfentanyl is a more successful analogue and one of the best. Carfentanil knocks people out right away, unlike 3-methylfentanyl, which has an effect almost similar to that of heroin

 

[OrganicGuy007]

maybe doesn't work in your lab, I know where it worked flawlessly several times

 

[Hank Schrader]

Well, I'm very happy for you)

 

[itsbluesky]

i hear that swapping out the glacial acetic acid with a catalytic amount of zinc chloride is what’s supposed to be done, that former was disinformation and effectively reduces the yield by up to 55% (i.e. ~12-33%).

 

[Doktor Faust]

3-Methylfentanyl is an old compound, going back to 1973 and 1974. It has been actually detected on street markets from time to time, not too often.

The compound (as cis/trans mixture) is relatively easy to synthesize, for those who know how to do it.

First, 2-phenylethylamine adds to methyl methacrylate (or its ethyl ester analogue) (aza-Michael addition), which stops spontaneously when complete (there is no second addition). Then the resulting mono-adduct is reacted directly with methyl acrylate, or its ethyl ester analogue, (which represents the second aza-Michael addition), and the obtained amino-diester is subjected to Dieckmann condensation (there are some simple, highly efficient, newer protocols for this condensation.) After acid hydrolysis/decarboxylation (20% HCl or 50% H2SO4), the resulting 3-methyl N-(2-phenylethyl) piperidone (obtained in high overall yields) is used for the reductive amination with aniline (with NaBH3CN or NaBH(AcO)3. The cis/trans mixture is obtained in ~6:4 -7:3 ratio, in moderate yields. (There are better reducing agents, not mentioned here).

The cis/trans mixture of the intermediate is the problem, as it is not easy to resolve, apart from chromatography. (There are some crystallization procedures). The potency of +/- cis 3-MF is about 8 X fentanyl and the effect lasts much longer, up to 12h, as opposed to fentanyl (1-2h). Only + enantiomer is active, - is not. The +/-trans 3-MF is much weaker, about fentanyl itself. It is an unwanted isomer, and there is a need to remove it. (If present in significant amounts, it obviously decreases the potency). The synthesis is completed using propionyl chloride (less preferably propionic anhydride), and the product is precipitated as an oxalate salt (unlike fentanyl, which is monocitrate salt). It is not encountered that often on the streets, because the synthesis is actually more complex than described above (the procedure must be known and understood in detail). Also, cis-trans separation of the mixture is laborious and the trans isomer is lost, i.e. discarded. (Detailed large-scale procedures might be available for the professionals, at a very high cost).

Benzyl 3-methyl fentanyl, is not a practically usefull precursor of 3-MF, unless someone has no access to 2-phenylethylamine or its precursor, benzyl cyanide. Even then, there are workaround methods.

The fact is, +/- cis 3-methyl fentanyl is a quite lethal substance, unless diluted and dosed properly (only experts can do that, even than sensitive individuals can overdose and die, due to the respiratory depression, i.e. stop of the spontaneous breathing, just as it is the case with heroin).

It is entirely different matter what the users actually encounter on the markets. It need not to be 3-MF at all, more likely fentanyl or even some of the nitazenes.
There are no any simple means of knowing what the contents of the mixture are.

 

[KurtV989]

Y'all some smart MF-er's!!

The Fent argument has been very interesting to me. One the one hand, you have a product that is more efficient, cheaper, and is easier method of consumption. On the other, you have overdoses, lab accidents, and I think the kicker: it's a great poison for bad actors with ill intent. The shit you see in movies, "guy poisons his whole towns water supply and kills thousands" type shit (which never happens btw).

I think @OrgUnikum said it about the propaganda stories of cops just looking at Fent and OD'ing. Every single story I have heard about Fent has been sensationalized by the media.

In the end for me, I think instead of looking at it as 'poison', it needs to be looked at like many other very volatile, dangerous, beautiful things that originate from science and nature; with respect, very much respect. You approach it as you would a hunk of plutonium. If you know you can't safely approach plutonium right now then you should get yourself up to the level of the substance you are working with. If that means insane PPE, Naxalone on premises, an assistant (all of the above) then you should be smart enough to know not to mess with it until you're at the proper respect level.

Just be smart, be safe, know what you're working with, and respect it!

 

[Ignignokt66]

How much 4-Piperidinone hcl is used?

 

[middlemaneu]

In my humble opinion, leaving aside now all the politics, the fuck up of govs, the hate/terror campaign, and the reason fent became the scape-goal for the greed of vendors who got no clues what they are selling, they don't give a shit about the scene improvement, neither that their customers stays alive, and the death, now finally recovering slowly of the RC Opioids scene brought from Zenes --- fentalogues were and are still an exceptional class that should be back, but sold with full transparency, not as unknown random codenames with no info on potency, ROAs, dosages, etc etc.

The only way to defeat those vendors doing millions daily selling only mexican cartels random bricks, where no single one contains the same of the next one despite it has the same logo and colour - first it's to make realize to the people with the money for doing it, that it's not at all a Niche scene, neither in USA nor in EU. Secondly, to avoid that the greed of vendors will cause the same of the current "china white" sold now, full of leftovers and where other random drugs families and classes are tossed inside just to "make it true fire" - is to point to mid-potency analogues already well known belonging to the golden age where they were still legal and saw at the beginning, where the potency and the high recreational (or therapeutic) effects is known.

Having a mid-range potency, will allow low potency opioid users to use them safely (no ug dosages), and strong opioid users to enjoy them regardless, just enough to take an higher dosage. End buyers does not really care about "potency" but effects. Just some name of perfect candidates: Acetyl-F (15x), Iso-Butyr-F (20x) Furanyl-F (25x), and few others, Why this potency, other than reasons already mentioned?

Becuase as explained users care about effects. We had enough of boring sedative super potent Zenes. People seek euphoric or at least warm pleasant body well being. And since they pay even 600 usd/g for fent HCL, the would pay regardless 200usd/g for the lower potency ones. Nobody cares about what cartels usually do - 4F-Fent and, less common, 4C-Fent - where only potency matters. But then they cut it, other than being a shitty synth with leftovers, with other random stuff. At the end the costs are much higher than doing directly a PROPER fentalogue that does not need any cut, if you see the precursors and synth processes needed.

I am not saying high potency Fentalogues are bad, CF or R30490 are possibly the most euphoric and pleasant analogues ever, but they would cause the same issue that only the greedy vendors will be interested, to mint out millions by doing fake pressed oxy or synthetic heroin. Buyers are not dumb anymore, they all carries Zenes, Xylazines and Fent test-stripes. There is nothing to gain anymore trying to poison people. Instead start a proper business and prove your legitimacy by selling with full transparency, and you will see that this business model is the true gold mine, not the superpotency targets to cut, but the right potency already as pure powder, or if the potency is too high, with a clean cut 1:3, 1:10, 1:25 with mannitol or caffeine only. And you will keep buyers happy and alive, covering both the low- and strong- potency users.

Peace,