Isomers and tartaric acid

[btcboss2022]

I think something wrong with graph.
If you use L+-tartaric acid(cheaper and easier to find)the D enantiomer(amph,Meth) will be in the solution not in the solid as there appears.
If you use D-tartaric acid(more expensive and difficult to find) the D enantiomer(amph,Meth) will be in the solid.
Thanks.

 

[G.Patton]

His scheme is correct. Salt is precipitated into the solid state. No difference, d-amphetamine l-tartaric acid salt or l-amphetamine d-tartaric salt. You can change acid and get difference isomer in the solid state with following procedures.

P.S. same for methamphetamine.

 

[G.Patton]

I applied pictures there (pic 18). We will make a video with d-isomer separation to explain it. I think a lot of same questions will be there after video =)

 

[Davidrobinson]

What do you mean under pic 18.
"We precipitate d-amphetamine with an additional amount of d-tartaric acid". I thought the d tartaric acid you used crashed the l amphetamine d tartaric salt out. How is it going to precipitate the d amphetamine left in the solution?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

D-tartric leaves the desired enantiomer in solution, your solid is now your waste in this case, opposite for L-tartaric (the common one), you then precipitate with your desired acid. During both these processes you will arrive at the sulphate or phosphate, as the tartrates are not storeable

 

[Davidrobinson]

I understand that. But if you read the procedure that is posted , here it is.
"Extract with 5 ml of petroleum ether and warm the solution, add 2.45 g of d-tartaric acid in alcohol solution to the mixture. Then add alcohol until completely dissolved and cool with stirring. The l-amphetamine d-tartaric salt precipitates. The d-amphetamine remains in the solution. You can repeat procedure of cleaning precipitate of l-amphetamine d-tartaric salt by methanol to increase yield."
This next bit i am talking about .
"We precipitate d-amphetamine with an additional amount of d-tartaric acid. We filter the precipitate, get the base of d-amphetamine, adding alkali to pH = 11"

 

[Davidrobinson]

That is on g pattons procedure, is that a mistake

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

yeah probably unless i;m not missing anything

 

[Davidrobinson]

Ye it doesnt make sense , wait and see what the video is like he is making

 

[G.Patton]

I mean that excess of d-tartaric acid precipitate d-amphetamine as well. It is sort of a/b extraction. I think you can skip this step and acidify ether solution after first d-tartaric acid addition.

 

[Davidrobinson]

Ok. But how can you precipitate d amphetamine with d tartaric acid, When you seperated
l amphetamine d tartate with this same tartraic acid in the step before

 

[Davidrobinson]

There is alot of confusion around this topic. Hopefully your video sheds some light on it .

 

[G.Patton]

I did it in equimolar ratio. For d-amph d-tartrane excess is used.

 

[Davidrobinson]

So L+ tartaric acid can precipitate both isomers

 

[smallworker]

It sounds good this way

I have another way. I used L++ tartaric. I make the base oil and l++ tartaric together.
I make 1.4L h2o and put 700gr tartaric together. This mixture i put on 1L freebase oil.

After few minutes he became solid. I let cooldown the mass and will after few hours separated by centrifuge
We oil who comes out i make to ph11/12 to receive the base oil
And the powder how stays in the centrifuge i makr this with hot water and also bring with naoh to ph 11/12 to take the base oil

D and L seperated..


Some suggestion to make it better?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

Are you seaprating the watery layer from solvent layer before centrifuge? It sounds to me like your're wasting product in the water layer if yes, but maybe I don;t understand.

 

[smallworker]

Yes i take off from the solid piece all water into filterpaper an than put together the water and the water from the centrifuged solidnmass.

This together i make with noah ph 12

 

[Davidrobinson]

Is your d amp/meth the solid mass

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

yes, probably, he's describing the L-tartaric route. he centrifuges to remove as much solvent and l-amph as possible then basifies his solid product( d-amph l-tartrate) and reprecipitates as far as I understand, which is good

 

[Davidrobinson]

Yer that is a good route.

 

[G.Patton]

Hello. Your d-amphetamine L-tartaric salt will not precipitate in water because it is soluble in water. As I wrote in my manual, you have to use alcohol for tartaric acid.

 

[smallworker]

Yess use L++ tartaric