Sinteza amfetamina iz P2NP prek Al/Hg (video)

[ch3wbacca]

Dodajanje kovinskega živega srebra v nekaj 50-odstotne dušikove kisline in ne vdihavanje hlapov, nato pa uporaba tega za amalgamiranje Al v vodi ali alkoholu.
Deluje vedno, zanesljivo in hitro.
Če je to zdaj (I) ali (II) nitrat, priznam, da o tem nisem nikoli razmišljal.

Toda vse živosrebrove soli delujejo, topnost je drugotnega pomena. Samo živo srebro res ni zadetek v polno, vendar mu nekaj dušikove kisline ali nekaj HCl in ščepec nitrata pomagata, da se odpravi na pot.

Amalgamacija je torta z živosrebrove strani ograje, za težave, za katere je krivo živo srebro, je IMHO praktično vedno kriv aluminij v posebni neumni foliji, za katero še vedno velja, da je primerna.
Priskrbite si nekaj dobrih 99,9-odstotnih zrnc Al in amalgamiranje bo najmanjša težava, celotna reakcija pa bo potem najverjetneje brez težav.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Funktioniert pulver auch solamge die reinheit ausreichend ist oder sollte man granulat nutzen?

 

[Marvin "Popcorn" Sutton]

Po mojih izkušnjah je aluminijasta folija najboljša oblika aluminija za amalgam. Glavni pogoj je, da ne vsebuje nobenih tujih sestavin, temveč le 99,9-odstotni Al. Primerni so tudi prah in granule aluminija, vendar jih je priporočljivo vzeti v večjih količinah za reakcijo, izplen pa ne bo tako dober kot pri uporabi folije.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Kannst du mir prozentual sagen welche mengenanpassung ratsam wäre?

 

[Ruedi689]

Https://www.aurelio-online.com dobavlja 100-odstotno naročilo tudi tam

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Die seite ist perfekt vielen dank.

 

[Ruedi689]

To mora povedati tudi sam. Lahko vam dam samo napotek. Naročite želeni izdelek in ga takoj plačajte. Nato pošljite potrdilo o nakazilu na njegov elektronski naslov. Nič ne bo oviralo vaše dostave. Svoje podjetje lahko poimenujete xy. Trgovec se vzdrži ust-id.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Habe das feld einfach frei gelassen bestellung wurde trotzdem entgegen genommen.

 

[DEA:)]

vse kolege ljubitelje, ki so radovedni, da bi to poskusili, opozarjamo, da je ravnanje z živosrebrovimi spojinami precej nevarno, zato mora vsakdo opraviti nekaj previdnostnih ukrepov, preden začne izvajati poskuse z njimi. sicer se lahko zgodi, da bodo v vašem premajhnem stanovanju nenehno dišale nezatesnjene steklenice, polne strupenih odpadkov, in se boste spraševali, ali ste že noro klobasali.

Menil sem, da je to treba povedati.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

In der eigenen wohnung halte ich schon für bedenklich geschweige denn die abfälle unverschlossen dort einzulagern. Aber davon mal abgesehen wie würdet ihr hier eigentlich empfehlen die abfälle zu entsorgen?

 

[DannyDani43]

Pozdravljeni, s čim lahko nadomestim živosrebrov nitrat in žveplovo kislino?

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Quecksilber chlorid funktioniert auch aber du benötigst etwas mehr.

 

[Albul]

Imo lahko veliko stvari, na primer nereagirani P2, ker reakcija ni potekala, prekomerno hlajenje, P2 slabe kakovosti, lahko je veliko stvari.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Überkühlung hat auf jeden fall einen negativen einfluss auf die gesamte reaktion.

 

[btcboss2022]

Pozdravljeni,

po 2 poskusih sem končno dobil pričakovani rezultat, vendar imam nekaj pomislekov, do zdaj sem vedno pridobival amfetamin sulfat iz "A-Oil" (amfetamin freebase) to olje je pridobljeno "čiščenje" P2P (BMK olje).
Kot veste, je vonj tega olja in vonj končnega izdelka zelo značilen, v primeru proste baze, pridobljene s postopkom P2NP, pa je ta vonj popolnoma drugačen in tudi vonj amfetamin sulfata, je to normalno? Ali gre za uporabljeno pot ali sem naredil nekaj narobe?
PH moje proste baze je 13,8 (več kot dobro) in postopek za pridobitev sulfata deluje dobro, vendar mislim, da bi veliko ljudi lahko reklo, da to ni dobra kakovost, ker je vonj drugačen od drugega.
Ali obstaja kakšna zamisel za odpravo te "težave"? Laboratorijske rezultate svojega amfetamin sulfata bom sporočil čim prej, naslednji teden ga bom poslal v laboratorij.
Hvala.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Kannst du den geruch etwas näher beschreiben?

 

[btcboss2022]

Okej, hvala za nasvet, tudi jaz bom pustil dober nasvet o postopku, po dodajanju raztopine NaOH za ločevanje proste baze je bolje počakati vsaj 24 ur za popolno ločitev.
Jaz sem naredil tako, kot je prikazano v videoposnetku, vendar sem pozneje pustil raztopino še 1 dan in ločilo se je več frebaze in dobil sem večji izkoristek ;-) Naložil sem nekaj slik.
Hvala.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Wie viel milliliter hast du exakt erzielt aus wie viel gramm p2np?

 

[diogenes]

Drugo vprašanje. Ali lahko pri amalgamiranju pretiravate, npr. z uporabo prevelike količine živosrebrovega nitrata? Poskušal sem narediti amalgam, vendar je nekako razpadel, vse skupaj se je zgodilo zelo hitro, manj kot 15 minut, in večina moje folije je postala `mulj´. Kakšni nasveti o tem, kako določiti pravi čas in kako reakcijo upočasniti? Oprostite, če je to nekaj zelo očitnega, vendar mi je vseeno uspelo narediti napako, čeprav sem opazoval znake, kot so mehurčki itd.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Die farbe ist schon sehr ausschlaggebend würde ich sagen und dickere folie kann helfen da sie widerstandsfähiger ist.

 

[G.Patton]

Potrebno je proizvajati vodik H2 plin. O reakciji si lahko preberete v tej temi.

Lahko. Bolje je, da uporabljate sredstva, ki so primerna za uporabo v živilski industriji.

 

[waltjr5858]

On one of the amalgam videos on this site it say when the amalgam is ready hydrogen evolution stops... I am having a big issue on telling when the amalgam is ready. One person said when it all floats another when it's a rich gray.... there has to be a better way to tell. I have waited until gas evolution stops and it never does.. the aluminum just gets completely consumed. I have tried thin and thick foil and aluminum grains. I have tried cleaning with hydroxide prior also. I have gotten the reaction to work a couple times out of at least 50+.... I'm stubborn. Most of the time the p2np is definitely consumed but come out with very very weak effects... actually nothing really as a very light orange solution. The time it did work it came out a dark orange solution. It's absolutely an issue with the amalgam because I have tried so many times I am very familiar with each stage. I find when it reacts very abruptly when the p2np solution is poured in i know it will be a decent reaction. When I have to shake it a lot to get it started it doesn't really work at all.
Does anyone know ow what the symptoms of using to much or to little mercury are so I can try to figure out the issue. I am using the solution of mercury that is described on this site to make mercury ii nitrate but using it as a solution and not dehydrating it as a salt. It says take like 1.5 grams of mercury and 20mls of concentrated nitric acid and wait till the mercury dissolves. Then add 5mls to 12 grams of aluminum. So I'm guessing you would use let's say 2.5ml for 6 grams of foil? There's something escaping me and I can't figure it out help please....

 

[golab071]

It may not be the optimal solution, but it is possible to combine the reduction reaction with amalgamation in a single step

 

[G.Patton]

As I already answered you in DM, you need to get grey amalgam. You don't need to wait until it will be completely dissolved. In the video, it's clearly shown how it should look like. Simple Al foil from a hardware or grocery store.

 

[waltjr5858]

I've seen the video a good 100 times still hard to tell when to do it... I'll figure it out at some point...

 

[nofuckups]

I had a failed first attempt and kinda fucked up big time by inhaling toxic fumes from the violent reaction.

As I poured the P2NP solution into the flask, the funnel on the flask couldn't hold itself and started bouncing (simply because of vapor pressure from the reaction). It happened so quickly that I couldn't find any time to process what's happening and to put a condenser. As a result, I inhaled some toxic fumes from the reaction and I'm not exactly sure how toxic they were but it smelled so bad. Some solution got spilled as a result and the reactants got evaporated in the early stage.

The yield from my 10g setup was like 300mg of white salt(turned out it was some basic byproduct or unreacted amphemine freebase). It tasted like a soap and had a burning sensation so I threw it away. 5-6% yield was a red sign anyway.

Some mistakes that I made that newbies can avoid:
1. Don't use a small funnel on flask: When pouring the P2NP solution in the amalgam, make sure your funnel's stem is big enough (especially w/ a >=10g setup). Smaller stem/funnel size in general can be a bottleneck and cause spillage or other adverse outcomes (you have to be very quick here to add a condenser and shake the flask).

2. Make sure you don't evaporate the solvents in the P2NP+IPA+GAA solution while heating it. Sometimes P2NP crystals may not dissolve so gentle heating may help(40-50'C) but if you heat it more then solvents like IPA would begin to evaporate and you'd lose solvents.

3. Ensure that your water is distilled and has close to zero TDS. I bought some "destilled water" bottles but they turned out to be just purified water with a 25-30 TDS. It's not a significant issue but contaminated water should be avoided in the amalgam phase to avoid unnecessary reactions with water impurities.

4. Properly acidify the amphetamine freebase before proceeding for drying. My pH papers were shit so I couldn't measure properly but you shouldn't stop before a pH of 6. Keep adding more acid solution until you reach it. Mistakes at this stage can result in a basic soapy product, not amphetamine sulfate.

5. Extract your amphetamine freebase with a non-polar solvent. The video doesn't include this part but it's an important step to not miss if you want a successful and pure yield. Something like Toluene could work. I haven't tried this it before but next time I'm going to do this.

6. If it's your first time, be very careful with the exothermic reaction when adding P2NP solution to the amalgam. In reality it can be far more violent than what's shown in the video so be prepared for that. Proper PPE and preparation can help like keeping cold water and condenser handy.

---

I have a few questions here for the experienced chemists:
1. How to deal with solvents volume loss? Even after a condenser and ice-baths, sometimes it can evaporate more. At what stage are we safe to add some IPA to the mixture? The video descriptions says you can add some IPA after the reaction is complete(to rinse the flask). Is that correct and if yes, how much are we talking at this scale? 15-20ml?

2. Can we add the P2NP solution slowly and in batches instead of at once? I can see this can result in more solvent evaporation but I really want to avoid overheating and violent reaction.

 

[G.Patton]

You had to use simple PPE like face mask. It's sad to read. I wrote a topic about PPE. It's cheap and may save you from poisoning.
This overheating means that you spoiled your P2NP. That is the reason of low yield.
Just add more at the beginning of the reaction. Yes, 20-30 ml more would be enough.
Yes, you can split P2NP solution in several portions.

 

[waltjr5858]

I am having a problem getting the timing of the amalgam down to get to that very reactive state. It does react and the foil completely dissolves but I get ton of failures. The only ones that work are the ones that react violently right from the get go. Do you have any pics or anything of when to pull the trigger and the amalgam is ready. My aluminum starts to dissolve on the edges and the face of the aluminum doesn't look ready. I clean it throughly the aluminum and give it a quick run in 1% hydroxide to remove any oils. Or sometimes I don't... same result. I am using liquid mercury ii nitrate made from instructions on this site. I am going to try some more reactions with grains....

 

[nofuckups]

That's been my experience with two experiments so far. Either my amalgam isn't good enough or my p2np reduction is incomplete. The end result for me is always some byproduct or unreacted junk instead of amphetamine sulphate. It does look very white, fluffy and water soluable though. Heck, even pH is similar to amphetamine sulphate but when I run some tests like burning it with a lighter flame or dissolving it in a warm IPA solution, it stays solid and doesn't evaporate/dissolve. Also the taste is either mildly salty or soapy.

I'm gonna extract with Toluene next time.

 

[rampage]

for me its been between 10-15minutes for amalgam to be ready, not sure how long fellow members do it for

 

[waltjr5858]

How do you tell when the amalgam is ready and what temperature do you keep it below? I find that when trying to keep it below 60c the reaction almost dies out.... also the timing of the p2np addition... typically when I add it nothing happens except the temperature starts climbing until it gets over 60c and then it goes crazy. I can tell the amalgam isn't fully ready or I'm too late. The reactions that work when just like the video it starts reacting like crazy the second the p2np hits the aluminum. Mine has to be shaken for a while and then starts going in like 20 seconds or so. Also is the reaction complete when the reaction settles down or does it need some time on the hot plate at the end?

 

[NieDoswiadczony]

what could be the reason that I can't get ph 12 I have broken down NaOh 50g into 75ml of water 100g into 120ml of water and I can't get ph 12

 

[NieDoswiadczony]

after the reaction of Al with P2np I added NaOH and 2 layers separated but I did not reach pH 12, can I add NaOH solution again to reach pH 12?

 

[GhostChemist]

Yes, you can add an additional portion of NaOH