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Synteza amfetaminy z P2NP za pomocą Al/Hg (wideo)

ch3wbacca

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Dodanie metalicznej rtęci do 50% kwasu azotowego i nie wdychanie oparów, a następnie użycie tego do amalgamatu Al w wodzie lub alkoholu.
Działa zawsze, niezawodnie i szybko.
Przyznaję, że nigdy nie zastanawiałem się nad tym, czy jest to teraz azotan (I) czy (II).

Ale wszystkie sole rtęci działają, rozpuszczalność jest drugorzędna. Sama rtęć nie jest tak naprawdę hitem, ale trochę kwasu azotowego lub trochę HCl i szczypta azotanu pomagają jej wejść na drogę.

Amalgamacja jest ciastem od rtęciowej strony płotu, problemy obwiniane o rtęć są IMHO praktycznie zawsze winą aluminium w specjalnej głupiej folii, która wciąż jest uważana za odpowiednią.
Zdobądź dobre granulki 99,9% Al, a amalgamacja będzie najmniejszym z twoich problemów, cała reakcja będzie wtedy najprawdopodobniej bezproblemowa.
 

Johnny Ringo

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Funktioniert pulver auch solamge die reinheit ausreichend ist oder sollte man granulat nutzen?
 
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Z mojego doświadczenia wynika, że folia aluminiowa jest najlepszą formą aluminium do amalgamatu. Głównym warunkiem jest to, że nie zawiera żadnych obcych składników, tylko 99,9% Al. Proszek i granulki aluminium są również odpowiednie, ale zaleca się ich przyjmowanie w większych ilościach do reakcji, a wydajność nie będzie tak dobra, jak przy użyciu folii.
 

Johnny Ringo

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Kannst du mir prozentual sagen welche mengenanpassung ratsam wäre?
 

Ruedi689

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On musi to powiedzieć. Mogę dać ci tylko wskazówkę. Zamów żądany produkt i natychmiast zapłać. Następnie wyślij potwierdzenie przelewu na jego adres e-mail. Nic nie stanie na przeszkodzie, abyś otrzymał przesyłkę. Możesz nazwać swoją firmę xy. Sprzedawca powstrzymuje się od ust-id.
 

Johnny Ringo

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Habe das feld einfach frei gelassen bestellung wurde trotzdem entgegen genommen.
 

DEA:)

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wszystkich hobbystów, którzy chcieliby spróbować swoich sił w tej dziedzinie, ostrzegam, że związki rtęci są dość niebezpieczne w użyciu i każdy powinien podjąć pewne środki ostrożności przed przystąpieniem do eksperymentów z nimi. w przeciwnym razie możesz skończyć z niezamkniętymi butelkami pełnymi toksycznych odpadów, nieustannie dymiącymi w twoim zbyt małym mieszkaniu, zastanawiając się, czy już jesteś szalonym hattinem.

Czułem, że trzeba to powiedzieć.
 

Johnny Ringo

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In der eigenen wohnung halte ich schon für bedenklich geschweige denn die abfälle unverschlossen dort einzulagern. Aber davon mal abgesehen wie würdet ihr hier eigentlich empfehlen die abfälle zu entsorgen?
 

DannyDani43

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Czym mogę zastąpić azotan rtęci i kwas siarkowy?
 

Johnny Ringo

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Quecksilber chlorid funktioniert auch aber du benötigst etwas mehr.
 

Albul

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Imo może to być wiele rzeczy, takich jak nieprzereagowany P2 z powodu nieprzeprowadzenia reakcji, przechłodzenia, P2 niskiej jakości, może to być wiele rzeczy.
 

Johnny Ringo

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Überkühlung hat auf jeden fall einen negativen einfluss auf die gesamte reaktion.
 

btcboss2022

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Witam,

Po 2 próbach w końcu uzyskałem oczekiwany rezultat, ale mam pewne wątpliwości, do tej pory zawsze uzyskiwałem siarczan amfetaminy z "A-Oil" (amfetamina freebase) ten olej uzyskuje się "czyszcząc" P2P (olej BMK).
Jak wiadomo zapach tego oleju i zapach produktu końcowego jest bardzo charakterystyczny, w przypadku wolnej bazy uzyskanej w procesie P2NP ten zapach jest zupełnie inny i zapach siarczanu amfetaminy też, czy to normalne? Czy chodzi o zastosowaną drogę, czy zrobiłem coś źle?
PH mojej wolnej bazy wynosi 13,8 (więcej niż dobrze), a proces uzyskiwania siarczanu działa dobrze, ale przypuszczam, że wiele osób mogłoby powiedzieć, że nie jest to dobra jakość, ponieważ zapach jest inny niż w przypadku drugiej.
Jakiś pomysł na naprawienie tego "problemu"? Wyniki laboratoryjne mojego siarczanu amfetaminy prześlę jak najszybciej do laboratorium w przyszłym tygodniu.
Dzięki.
 

btcboss2022

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Ok, dzięki za wskazówkę, zostawię też dobrą wskazówkę dotyczącą procesu, po dodaniu roztworu NaOH do separacji wolnej zasady lepiej poczekać co najmniej 24 godziny na pełną separację.
Zrobiłem to tak, jak pokazuje wideo, ale później zostawiłem roztwór jeszcze 1 dzień i więcej freebase zostało oddzielonych i uzyskałem większą wydajność ;-) Przesłałem kilka zdjęć.
Dzięki.
 

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Johnny Ringo

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Wie viel milliliter hast du exakt erzielt aus wie viel gramm p2np?
 

diogenes

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Kolejne pytanie. Czy można "przesadzić" z amalgamacją, np. używając zbyt dużej ilości azotanu rtęci? Próbowałem zrobić amalgamat, ale jakoś się rozpadł, wszystko stało się bardzo szybko, niecałe 15 minut, a większość mojej folii stała się "szlamem". Jakieś wskazówki, jak znaleźć odpowiedni czas i jak spowolnić reakcję? Przepraszam, jeśli to coś bardzo oczywistego, ale i tak udało mi się pomylić, nawet jeśli obserwowałem znaki, takie jak bąbelki itp.
 

Johnny Ringo

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Die farbe ist schon sehr ausschlaggebend würde ich sagen und dickere folie kann helfen da sie widerstandsfähiger ist.
 

G.Patton

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Do produkcji wodoru niezbędny jest gaz H2. Możesz przeczytać o reakcji w tym temacie.

Można. Lepiej jest używać produktów spożywczych.
 

waltjr5858

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On one of the amalgam videos on this site it say when the amalgam is ready hydrogen evolution stops... I am having a big issue on telling when the amalgam is ready. One person said when it all floats another when it's a rich gray.... there has to be a better way to tell. I have waited until gas evolution stops and it never does.. the aluminum just gets completely consumed. I have tried thin and thick foil and aluminum grains. I have tried cleaning with hydroxide prior also. I have gotten the reaction to work a couple times out of at least 50+.... I'm stubborn. Most of the time the p2np is definitely consumed but come out with very very weak effects... actually nothing really as a very light orange solution. The time it did work it came out a dark orange solution. It's absolutely an issue with the amalgam because I have tried so many times I am very familiar with each stage. I find when it reacts very abruptly when the p2np solution is poured in i know it will be a decent reaction. When I have to shake it a lot to get it started it doesn't really work at all.
Does anyone know ow what the symptoms of using to much or to little mercury are so I can try to figure out the issue. I am using the solution of mercury that is described on this site to make mercury ii nitrate but using it as a solution and not dehydrating it as a salt. It says take like 1.5 grams of mercury and 20mls of concentrated nitric acid and wait till the mercury dissolves. Then add 5mls to 12 grams of aluminum. So I'm guessing you would use let's say 2.5ml for 6 grams of foil? There's something escaping me and I can't figure it out help please....
 
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golab071

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It may not be the optimal solution, but it is possible to combine the reduction reaction with amalgamation in a single step
 

G.Patton

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As I already answered you in DM, you need to get grey amalgam. You don't need to wait until it will be completely dissolved. In the video, it's clearly shown how it should look like. Simple Al foil from a hardware or grocery store.
 

waltjr5858

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I've seen the video a good 100 times still hard to tell when to do it... I'll figure it out at some point...
 

nofuckups

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I had a failed first attempt and kinda fucked up big time by inhaling toxic fumes from the violent reaction.

As I poured the P2NP solution into the flask, the funnel on the flask couldn't hold itself and started bouncing (simply because of vapor pressure from the reaction). It happened so quickly that I couldn't find any time to process what's happening and to put a condenser. As a result, I inhaled some toxic fumes from the reaction and I'm not exactly sure how toxic they were but it smelled so bad. Some solution got spilled as a result and the reactants got evaporated in the early stage.

The yield from my 10g setup was like 300mg of white salt(turned out it was some basic byproduct or unreacted amphemine freebase). It tasted like a soap and had a burning sensation so I threw it away. 5-6% yield was a red sign anyway.

Some mistakes that I made that newbies can avoid:
1. Don't use a small funnel on flask: When pouring the P2NP solution in the amalgam, make sure your funnel's stem is big enough (especially w/ a >=10g setup). Smaller stem/funnel size in general can be a bottleneck and cause spillage or other adverse outcomes (you have to be very quick here to add a condenser and shake the flask).

2. Make sure you don't evaporate the solvents in the P2NP+IPA+GAA solution while heating it. Sometimes P2NP crystals may not dissolve so gentle heating may help(40-50'C) but if you heat it more then solvents like IPA would begin to evaporate and you'd lose solvents.

3. Ensure that your water is distilled and has close to zero TDS. I bought some "destilled water" bottles but they turned out to be just purified water with a 25-30 TDS. It's not a significant issue but contaminated water should be avoided in the amalgam phase to avoid unnecessary reactions with water impurities.

4. Properly acidify the amphetamine freebase before proceeding for drying. My pH papers were shit so I couldn't measure properly but you shouldn't stop before a pH of 6. Keep adding more acid solution until you reach it. Mistakes at this stage can result in a basic soapy product, not amphetamine sulfate.

5. Extract your amphetamine freebase with a non-polar solvent. The video doesn't include this part but it's an important step to not miss if you want a successful and pure yield. Something like Toluene could work. I haven't tried this it before but next time I'm going to do this.

6. If it's your first time, be very careful with the exothermic reaction when adding P2NP solution to the amalgam. In reality it can be far more violent than what's shown in the video so be prepared for that. Proper PPE and preparation can help like keeping cold water and condenser handy.



I have a few questions here for the experienced chemists:
1. How to deal with solvents volume loss? Even after a condenser and ice-baths, sometimes it can evaporate more. At what stage are we safe to add some IPA to the mixture? The video descriptions says you can add some IPA after the reaction is complete(to rinse the flask). Is that correct and if yes, how much are we talking at this scale? 15-20ml?

2. Can we add the P2NP solution slowly and in batches instead of at once? I can see this can result in more solvent evaporation but I really want to avoid overheating and violent reaction.
 

G.Patton

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You had to use simple PPE like face mask. It's sad to read. I wrote a topic about PPE. It's cheap and may save you from poisoning.
This overheating means that you spoiled your P2NP. That is the reason of low yield.
Just add more at the beginning of the reaction. Yes, 20-30 ml more would be enough.
Yes, you can split P2NP solution in several portions.
 

waltjr5858

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I am having a problem getting the timing of the amalgam down to get to that very reactive state. It does react and the foil completely dissolves but I get ton of failures. The only ones that work are the ones that react violently right from the get go. Do you have any pics or anything of when to pull the trigger and the amalgam is ready. My aluminum starts to dissolve on the edges and the face of the aluminum doesn't look ready. I clean it throughly the aluminum and give it a quick run in 1% hydroxide to remove any oils. Or sometimes I don't... same result. I am using liquid mercury ii nitrate made from instructions on this site. I am going to try some more reactions with grains....
 

nofuckups

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That's been my experience with two experiments so far. Either my amalgam isn't good enough or my p2np reduction is incomplete. The end result for me is always some byproduct or unreacted junk instead of amphetamine sulphate. It does look very white, fluffy and water soluable though. Heck, even pH is similar to amphetamine sulphate but when I run some tests like burning it with a lighter flame or dissolving it in a warm IPA solution, it stays solid and doesn't evaporate/dissolve. Also the taste is either mildly salty or soapy.

I'm gonna extract with Toluene next time.
 

rampage

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for me its been between 10-15minutes for amalgam to be ready, not sure how long fellow members do it for
 

waltjr5858

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How do you tell when the amalgam is ready and what temperature do you keep it below? I find that when trying to keep it below 60c the reaction almost dies out.... also the timing of the p2np addition... typically when I add it nothing happens except the temperature starts climbing until it gets over 60c and then it goes crazy. I can tell the amalgam isn't fully ready or I'm too late. The reactions that work when just like the video it starts reacting like crazy the second the p2np hits the aluminum. Mine has to be shaken for a while and then starts going in like 20 seconds or so. Also is the reaction complete when the reaction settles down or does it need some time on the hot plate at the end?
 

NieDoswiadczony

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what could be the reason that I can't get ph 12 I have broken down NaOh 50g into 75ml of water 100g into 120ml of water and I can't get ph 12
 

NieDoswiadczony

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after the reaction of Al with P2np I added NaOH and 2 layers separated but I did not reach pH 12, can I add NaOH solution again to reach pH 12?
 
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