Is there a reason Sulphate salts are preferred for amphetamines

[BrownRiceSyrup]

I know concentrated sulfuric acid has no water in it so thats ideal when making a salt, but is this the main reason for seeing sulfate salts as the way to go on most tutorials?

I FINALLY fucking suceeded in getting amphetamine freebase and now the question is, gas it or acetone/sulfuric acid route.. ya know?

whats the lowdown on all that ?

 

[w2x3f5]

Amphetamine sulfate is not hygroscopic, which is the main reason. Amphetamine monophosphate is also made, it is softer in action. Mixing acetone with sulfuric acid is a very bad idea - it will give additional impurities, use a mixture of alcohol and sulfuric acid. Phosphoric acid can be combined with acetone.
The hydrochloride will very quickly turn into a puddle of water, it draws water out of the air very strongly.

 

[BrownRiceSyrup]

Yea, tell me this after i do exactly this, also i should have known tbh.

Before i did anything, I sat there for 20 minutes and thought wtf can i use as a solvent for sulfuric acid that it wont react with... idk why i didnt think of alcohol... i think i just remembered its dehydrating power and assumed it would react with alcohols..... Ether didnt work, wasnt soluble in hexanes/heptane, (in retrospect - duh). i added it to acetone and nothing immedietely reacted, however i had made this mistake before but this time didnt see any white shit initially so i said fuck it.....

It got fucking messy quick.......

so youre saying use sulfuric in isopropyl alcohol right? and drop that in? cause that makes total fucking sense

 

[Mo0odi]

I mixed acetone with sulfuric acid
There are no impurities in it, it is a great product

 

[w2x3f5]

Sulfuric acid is a catalyst for the polycondensation and subsequent polymerization of acetone. The higher the acid concentration, the faster the reaction.

 

[w2x3f5]

Add more
When three molecules of acetone condense under the action of concentrated sulfuric or hydrochloric acid, symmetrical trimethylbenzene (mesitylene) is formed

 

[BrownRiceSyrup]

no hes right, its this white kind of stringy shit. doesnt seem to dissolve in water. If you leave sulfuric in acetone long enough in high concentrations it also turns red.... least it did with me...

 

[Mo0odi]

When I dried my amphetamine in the sun it turned orange or close to red


So I told Mr. G.Patton and he told me that if he was exposed to ultraviolet rays or oxygen, they react and spoil the product, so keep them away from light and air during the drying of the product.

 

[Mo0odi]

Also do not leave acetone with sulfuric acid for a long time

 

[w2x3f5]

Your impurities are most likely at the recovery stage, and not from acid with acetone

 

[w2x3f5]

Once I made a mistake using sulfuric acid in acetone and got a snotty yellow powder that is very difficult to wash off, there were no problems with similar syntheses when I used acid in alcohol.

 

[41Dxflatline]

Mine went red about 10 years ago but it doesn't seem to have had any effect on its behaviour or utility

 

[diogenes]

I had a long period of trying to get Acetone-Sulphuric acid mixture for salting, and the only way to prevent the formation of mesilates (red colour and awful smell) was to use freezer cold acetone and acid, but even with the utmost care it would turn red after a while (couple of hours). My experience confirms what w2x3f5 says that sulphuric acid-IPA mixture is much better for salting.

 

[Pervitin]

I read that A-phosphate is more common in the USA because of the lower boiling point, so you can smoke it. But that comes with the problem that you have to store it dry.

 

[w2x3f5]

There is a problem with phosphate, if the monophosphate it dries well after receiving, the rest of the phosphates are snot that cannot be dried

 

[41Dxflatline]

Are they roughly the consistency of 85% phosphorous acid itself except...sticky?

 

[w2x3f5]

Depending on the amount of phosphoric acid, you will get a salt of different composition. As a standard, the free base is diluted with acetone and phosphoric acid is added dropwise to ph 6, the consistency of the powder in acetone should be solid, not like snot. yes 85% phosphoric acid is good for making salt if you asked about it

 

[41Dxflatline]

No. Why drying amphetamine phosphate in IPA there's been "syrup" leftover, at first I thought it was phosphoric acid since it has the same consistency but it's not acidic. Now I'm thinking it might be other salts

 

[BrownRiceSyrup]

ive gotten that syrup a few times too.... no idea what it is either, and id get that using sulfuric acid. usually happens when i use too much and go below ph 6, but idk could be a fluke... ive failed many more times than ive succeeded, but ive succeeded, found a method that works great for me and so i just stick with that...

 

[w2x3f5]

I did not get salt in alcohol, I made phosphate only in acetone, it crystallizes well in it.

 

[OrgUnikum]

Amphetamine mono-Phosphate must be prepared by titration in water, the ph you want is 5 to 6. Monophospate cannot be prepared in alcohol as when one adds the phosphoric acid 75 or 85% doesn't matter, as is or in alcohol to the base in alcohol there comes the point when the all the Amph turns all of a sudden into bubblegum and it does not take on any acid anymore. So you have a mixture of polyphosphates . It is no problem to dry this bubblegum mass and it gets dry without problems and it can be consumed and its not bad but not the mono-phosphate.
The monophosphate which can be made by adding water and then diluted phosphoric acid to the base in a non-polar solvent and then mix the holy shit shit out of both, has the advantage that it is much more water-soluble then the polyphosphate and also more then the sulfate. This higher solubility means a better bio-availability and it has a slightly faster onset then the other salts. Only the carbonate salt is said to beat it, but I never tried to make it.

Now when you make the monophosphate in water something happens what will disturb you first: When adding the phosphoric acid you will first see salt falling out of the solution and this will make you happy. When adding more acid all of a sudden all the salt will -puff! - disappear again! In difference to sulfuric acid where this is bad, it is exactly what you want with phosphoric acid salts as you want the one with the best water solubility. Which you get at ph 5 to 6 and after separating and evaporating the water.

Red discoloration which appears when adding too much acid is not caused by acid or amphetamine but by impurities, mainly P2P and mildly basic impurities which came through the process. P2P goes nicely through steam-distillations and A/B procedures as it is amphoteric in the presence of bases and acids, in special with bases, say it becomes suddenly water soluble to a far wider extent.
Really clean Amphetamine base does not change color no matter how much acid you add. None of the post-reaction protocols I have seen here produces really clean Amphetamine base and so the reading about the discoloration (from pink to red) problem is no surprise at all.

 

[w2x3f5]

acetone works much better, it turns out a good solid salt, without snot. I personally checked back in 2005)))

 

[w2x3f5]

Regarding p2p and coloring, I will support. this is true. Impurities of p2p and its derivatives give color due to by-products, this is also the case for p2np and p2p syntheses, the amine after fractional distillation in high vacuum does not color when using an excess of acid, the pure base of the amine is completely colorless and transparent.